The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

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The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

Post by ARTnonymous on Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:05 am

OK, let's direct our attention toward WITP and give a brutally honest analysis of its nature, significance, the reasons for its current lamentable state, its projected evolution/ desired evolution.

Any significance of WITP has is in its relationship to Anonymous. This relationship is extremely mercurial, and just plain emotionally complicated. The ambiguous and unknowable nature of anon itself makes it difficult to talk of such a thing as "real" anon vs. "poser" anon. Yet anon can deliver and WITP cannot defend if anon wanted it gone or humiliated, a very real poissibility which should warrant some preperation. I don't have any desire to see this happen (well no rational or heroic desire, maybe out of bruised ego hehe)

The truth is anon IS the way by which the shift we desire WILL take place. In a sense WITP is actually an unintentional resistance to that, and it does not understand why...

Has to do with conflicting desires by WITP's groupmind to 1) hero worship anon and identify as such 2) reject the scary illegal, or on a deeper level somewhat sadistic or at least intensly, maliciously mischievous elements....... in other words, WITP wishes culture to accept anon, they see this as gaining power, so they make anon "palatable". That word "palatable" is the best way I can sum up the tragic flaw of witp- anon is NOT going to be made appealing, and to attempt this is no favor to anon- and will result in the sadistic/mischievous/lulz element to strike back.

I would like to basically, prepare for this strike but work to avoid it, makle it unnecessary. The way WITP is going, it's not that anon won't tolerate it.. anon simply will not be able to resist the lulz of seeing the entire community defaced. Anon doesn't care is middle-americans want to fancy themselves revolutionaries, but they will care if WITP pretends that the core of HACKERS who ATTACK targets like paypal are "undesirables" when it is they who are the core.

I decided to leave when it became clear that the leadership of the site didn't comprehend the significance of using paypal for donations, when it was anon's heroic statement to take down paypal due to them crumbling to government pressure to stop payment to wikileaks. It was then I realized that even the highest-level administration of WITP had a severe disconnect with the ideology and history of anon, and I left out of respect for anon.

Now, we can take this away from anon entirely, but that is premature. I would also bring up that the bee imagery and garish yellow borders have contributed to a subconscious agro vibe, but I'm a visual artist so...

ps. I don't want to be a "fair-weather friend" to them. Imagine in 4 months it is a different, once again magical place- not right to return all smiles, so how to envision a future there- what influence can we wield to evolve it and in what direction so as to be habitable eventually? I think Fighter is of vast importance- I LIKE him, and any deception on his part I trust that he is using for the greater good, not someone I'd be too sure I knew, not someone I'd be too quick to underestimate or classify... Not sure how he (or the many of him) fit into the ecology of "management" there, or how useful it is to think in terms of infultration of management for their own good-- changes can be manifested in sly ways, in subtle ways, in tricky and lulzy ways.... it is personalities which stand out due to their vividness, such souls can be allied and their charisma can spread will like wildfire, more efficiently than top-down ways.

wat do, indeed? I'm open + curious...
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Re: The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

Post by The Dude on Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:05 pm

I totally agree that WITP does not adhere to Anonymous principles. If it's about educating and informing (i.e. Phase 1), then I don't think it can. It's a cool club and a hangout for people who want to be 'anonymous'.

But of course, in a way, we can work with that. We can reach a wider audience and help educate people as to the core problems we need to face. A lot of people still don't know what's going on.

If we're to perform a research, I think our goal should be coming up with suitable targets for protest and activism. What are the core causes, and how can we effect change? It's kinda pointless to look at everything, and discuss every topic, if we can't effect significant change in a reasonable amount of time.

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Re: The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

Post by Red_Envy on Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:49 am

I'll say that my knowledge of Anonymous has been limited, with not a lot of knowledge of the history or culture that vrought it about. I knew it as something destructive and to be ignored until I heard about their resistance work in aiding the people of Egypt.Not knowing who exactly started this moral movement or how it was conceived, I can't say whether even it is in the "spirit" of Anonymous, as what Anonymous truly is is undefinable. It has evolved to a few simple principles, but their simplicity leaves them open to interpretations that conflict with one another.

Mavendetta was clearly an activist prior to The Plan's genesis, and created it with the intentions of it being such. However the non-activist culture of Anonymous entered, leading to the discord that exists now. There are a few members who seem to be able to embrace both parts of the culture, and there is no doubt that WITP has had a positive impact. If nothing else, it spread new ideas and provided a place for a major information hub. Its failure lies in being unable to defend itself from its origins, which though it tried to embrace, hurt it.

It wasn't just a "cool kid's club". It was a place for activism, but then the "cool kids" got in and many thought that they could better spend their energies elsewhere. Personally, I'm still active on the site and will continue to post where I think it's needed. I'm going to try to lead by example rather than attempt to change the minds of those there. If it falls in around itself, I'll still be there to help bring it back. If it returns to its original intentions, I won't have closed the door to return.

The name of Anonymous has clout. It has pure muscle. If it could be harnessed it would be unstoppable. But in order to be immortal it cannot be harnessed, and anyone who tries will invariably lose the reins. It cannot be led, it can only be shown another way to go.

Research and spreading the ideals to the masses can be done in the name of Anonymous if it is the ideals leading them. The culture that hinders it need not come with it.

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Re: The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

Post by Time on Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:41 pm

Me and 612 had a very good conversation about this in WITP.

"Anonymous" was basically a group of 4chans who trolled scientology for lulz, and now its becoming "cool", so other people want on that band wagon.

THe main reason it seems to have failed, is because they tried to become anonymous, instead of just doing what they wanted to do: which apperantly supposed to be expose corruption in the world, and make people do that change. Unfortunately, it became the antithesis of itself, and the anon "label", which the oldfags worked hard to create.

Its classic group think. You get so many people on there, and read the manifesto, and according to WITP, your anonymous. And as far as I can tell that is the furthest thing from the truth, so it got spammed to all hell, more then likley by the "real" anonymous, because it doest want its image turned to shit by a website that has no idea how to be anonymous.

If people just wanted to be the change they want to see, instead of following, then WITP probably wouldvbe been different. ITs the equivalent of a child running a company, but stealing mickey mouse, because of what he symbolises. That just wont work, and as we can see, it DIDNT.

If sites liek WITP/WWP and groups liek anon can actually get along, there wouldnt be any stopping that group. But we would rather fight over bull shit then understand were all in it together.


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Re: The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

Post by The Dude on Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:33 am

Agreed. I was amazed at the amount of "tell me what to do", "I need a leader" or "I will sign this agreement and be part of the team" that was going on there.

Other members of WWP explained how this is a typical cult-style tactic to create in-group feelings and was actually a form of incrementalism and indoctrination for getting others to follow and 'agree' to be led.

Further, I can't help but think that Mav, et. al. just used the Anonymous name to get their own name out, but they never understood the underlying culture. If one good thing came out of WITP, at least there's a larger understanding of the Anonymous community now (for those who bothered to stick around and try and learn something).

So yeah, members of WWP will troll it to shit until it's abandoned. They don't want people 'besmirching' their good name.

I guess the question becomes, what can we do, here or there, to do things RIGHT.

My own belief is to outline problems, propose solutions, and then align ourselves with the best existing solutions for solving those problems (mainstream activism, etc.). If no solution exists, then the job is to educate and create understanding of those problems.

As we saw in WITP, that's an uphill battle.
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Re: The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

Post by ravenpaige on Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:32 am

I guess I have to disagree here, or maybe I'm agreeing but just using different words, but the real problem I saw with the Meta Agreement was not in that it was an "agreement," but instead, that the vision provided in the Meta Agreement was mostly out of sync with the vision that WWP holds or, for that matter, that of Mavendetta.

So you had new people coming to WITP, reading the Meta Agreement, and coming to the very logical conclusion that the vision there was what the site was about. Plus, I have to say that most of the videos/advertising of the site also seemed to promote that same vision. Yet, when people started using the site, they found much that was in direct conflict with the vision from the Meta Agreement.

Perhaps the Meta Agreement vision is, in itself, in direct conflict with the vision of Anonymous. But some of the other videos I've seen, and I think, the Occupy Wallstreet movement that we're now observing, also seem to agree (at least in part) with the vision presented in the Meta Agreement.

So where is the disconnect? Is it that the Meta Agreement/WITP are not really Anonymous, or is it that WWP is not really Anonymous? Or is that like trying to argue that raspberries are not really a fruit because they don't really have a skin?

More importantly, though, where do WE fit in? I think it's a good step to start out by saying "we are not claiming to be Anonymous." And saying what we're NOT can certainly help to determine what we ARE. But eventually, we have to define what we ARE.

This process, of defining a vision, doesn't have to (and shouldn't) be a process of dictating where we are going to lead and then insisting that others follow. Rather, I think it should be a collaborative (and probably fluid and constantly in revision) process of clarifying what it is that we can all agree upon. Once we agree on the vision, then the rest (the mission, the strategy, the community mores) all can follow.
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Re: The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

Post by Malevolance on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:19 pm

Accordig to Anonymous WITP is not Anoymous nor does it follow the main functional guidelines or definition of what it is to be Anonymous: Freedom, transparency, anonymity.

"How to Join Anonymous - A Beginner's guide" https://youtu.be/XQk14FLDPZg
"Anonymous Message to WITP" https://youtu.be/Piq9GDs48A8
"A second Anonymous Message to WITP" https://youtu.be/hlZvsumWTuI

"Anonymous Message to the Website What is the Plan" https://youtu.be/6LHANr8JVg4

"Message from Anonymous: The Plan Will Fail" https://youtu.be/zh-i4WnDqXA



In otherwords, Anyone who claims to be a Anonymous yet censors, leads and hides behind secrecy goes against the very idea of Anonymous. Anyone who forces someone to sign up to a site that tracks your I.P. address without allowing you to use software that masks your I.P. address goes against the very DEFINITION of what Anonymous is and, therefore, cannot be Anonymous. Why? Because whatever name, phone number and address you use to purchase your Internet Service Provider is tracked through your I.P. address. Your I.P. address is to your internet what your License plate is to your car. In another words WITP does not allow you to be Anonymous by refusing to allow you to use I.P. masking software. Even worse, they use PayPal to accept donations. PayPal gave the F.B.I. over 1,000 user I.D.s of those who wish to be Anonymous.

Anonymous uses already existing Social Networking Sites. Anonymous uses free software that is compatible with all the free software they use such as Linux, Konqueror, Tor, VPN, Avast Pro, Peerblock, Wireshark. Anonymous does not censor. Anonymous does not hold secrets. Anonymous has no leaders. Anonymous does not use any site that prevents the use of I.P. masking software , such as TOR or VPN, and does not collect information on it's members. Anonymous does not use PayPal. Anonymous does not accept donations. Anonymous does not sell merchandise. Anonymous does not conduct itself like a cult. Anonymous is not a group. Anonymous has no members. These are all things that WITP does and, therefore, cannot be Anonymous and does not allow it's members to be Anonymous.

In fact, WITP is the exact opposite of what it is to be Anonymous under the disguise of being Anonymous. "Wolf in Sheep's Clothing".


Last edited by Malevolance on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

Post by Time on Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:41 pm

The problem is by using anonymous, we are using someone elses idea/ideals. ITs the same problem that anonymous seems to be trying to stop. Instead of being "ooo im anonymous, we are legion etc", it should be " the world is fucked up this is what I think, what does every one else here have to say about it, and what are your ideas..

Drop the anonymous thing, and just do what we want to do, which seems to be do every little thing we possibly can do to make the world a better place, and educate interested people in what we do best.

Me, im a plant whore. Im interested in sustainability, and using it as a non compliance form of protest. Simply, dont use or do things that support the problem. The hard part for me is getting rid of peoles perceptions of farming and eating, and their goddamn lazyness..

Anongirl seen my thread on WWP about permaculture, and she can hopefully back up what im sayin here, about peoples misconceptions and inability to WANT to change.

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Re: The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

Post by Malevolance on Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:53 am

Agreeed. I grew up on a farm. Moved to the city when I was in high school. I would have to say, the farm is definately less stress and less work.
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Re: The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

Post by twilly on Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:26 am

Me, im a plant whore. Im interested in sustainability, and using it as a
non compliance form of protest. Simply, dont use or do things that
support the problem. The hard part for me is getting rid of peoles
perceptions of farming and eating, and their goddamn lazyness..

That is pretty much my view. I know that some of my purchases contribute to the problem, I do own a computer obviously, and I am aware of how many of the parts are made, and how the metals used are obtained. However, for the most part I do my best to be an educated consumer, and I do not feed into the materialistic consumer mentality. I grow and raise most of my own food, the things I can't raise my self, such as beef and milk, I obtain from local family farms.

I can't claim to know exactly where WITP went wrong regarding Anonymous. It was the Anonymous name that drew me there, but not what kept me there. I knew about Anonymous from other sites, but most of what I know now about Anonymous, I learned from WITP. I had high hopes for WITP, and I am sorely disappointed in the way things have turned out, but I don't want to turn my back on it just yet.

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Re: The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

Post by The Dude on Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:45 am

Time wrote:Me, im a plant whore. Im interested in sustainability, and using it as a non compliance form of protest. Simply, dont use or do things that support the problem. The hard part for me is getting rid of peoles perceptions of farming and eating, and their goddamn lazyness..

Anongirl seen my thread on WWP about permaculture, and she can hopefully back up what im sayin here, about peoples misconceptions and inability to WANT to change.
Change is all about a change first in attitude, then behavior.

Change is about changing our consumer behavior. You say much more about your ideals through the way you shop than the way you vote. I posted on WITP about an Op to change the world. It wasn't difficult:

External: Spend less money to reduce your slavery.
Internal: Give up the idea that money can provide happiness or gratification.

If we can just do these two things, we'll be a lot better off. Then, if we can fix the money system, so it doesn't work to enslave us, but liberate us through free and honest commerce, we're pretty much home free.

Usury: using money to make money, is the root of all evil.

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Re: The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

Post by Malevolance on Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:17 am

All of this, I believe, would fall under the catigory of Op Empire State Rebelion or #OpESR. Protest banks and the current currency in any way you are capable.

#OpOccupy WallStreet is taking off like fire. There are Occupy Operations going on all over the world. Occupy Wall Street has pleged to have over 10,000 people on Wall Street this coming weekend. 3 Occupancy operations start in Texas just next week in Houston, Austin and Dallas. Another in 2 cities in Germany. I loved the Video of that kid saying "They're the opposite of Robin Hood. They're stealing money from the poor and giving it to the rich."
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Re: The relationship between the Archetype of Anonymous and WITP

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